Topic: Your opinion on BSBs... (Read 2534 times)

squig87 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 07, 2003, 03:13:33 PM »

Whats stopping you from using a BSB and an EC? Can you not use the genral's leadership for a re-rolled bsb leadership roll? I belive so.

Then most of your infantry mele units will have ld9 and re-rollable.

Why are you saying that a BSB is not worth it? Do you like you units to run way?

Albrecht von Hinkel · « **Reply #26 on:** September 07, 2003, 04:07:32 PM »

It's because he die so easily unless he take a suit of magic armour. T4 W2 and 4+ AS isn't so much to brag about.

Nexus · « **Reply #27 on:** September 07, 2003, 04:35:46 PM »

I was talking about putting the general on a griffon or as a GM, with a block of knights, and then he won't be very able to boost the Ld for the infantry. Then I thought that maybe a BSB could compensate for this loss. As the danish homepage showed, this wasn't really the case.

Konrad von Richtmark · « **Reply #28 on:** September 08, 2003, 12:37:34 AM »

Quote from: Albrecht von Hinkel

You must remember that the BSB don't have a LD radius like the EC have.
So the EC is still worth taking.

Doesn't his re-roll effect reach out 12 inches?

Albrecht von Hinkel · « **Reply #29 on:** September 08, 2003, 05:19:14 AM »

Hmm.. sure, that's true.

Konrad von Richtmark · « **Reply #30 on:** September 08, 2003, 05:24:16 AM »

Well, combine general and BSB somewhere in the middle of the army and they're unbreakable to all but the crackiest enemy troops.

Albrecht von Hinkel · « **Reply #31 on:** September 08, 2003, 05:35:41 AM »

I used to do that, but I found EC, WP and 1 caddy and 1 offensive wizard was better.

But a BSB with Armour of Meteoric Iron together with an EC carrying a Speculum and Holy Relic and perhaps great weapon or magic item is pretty rock hard.

Nexus · « **Reply #32 on:** September 08, 2003, 08:29:12 AM »

The BSB can't carry all that... and why give him magic armour when he can carry the Sigismund banner?

Albrecht von Hinkel · « **Reply #33 on:** September 08, 2003, 08:39:39 AM »

Doh, it's supposed to say 'But a BSB with Armour of Meteoric Iron together with an EC carrying a Speculum and Holy Relic'.

It is fixed now. Sigismund is apart from Griffon Banner and War Banner my favourite. But he dies so easily because he only got full plate. So his chances of survival are now much bigger.

purazon · « **Reply #34 on:** September 08, 2003, 11:31:42 AM »

I agree. Giving your BSB on foot a magic banner is suicide. Such a juicy target.
A BSB needs to be protected.
I usually give him armour of meteoric armour. He is more usefull this way. And I already have 3 units witch can take a magic banner (State troops, knights and greatswords).
However when I really want the imperial banner or banner of Sigismund, I put him on a barded warhorse in a unit of IC knights. That gives him enough survivability to wield an expensive banner.
I almost never use him though. I prefer my captain on pegasus or a BSB on foot.
But now I think of it,... Maybe I should try him more, ...
But he is expensive (197 p with imperial banner) for an empire character that isn't your general.

Nexus · « **Reply #35 on:** September 08, 2003, 11:43:39 AM »

He isn't THAT vulnerable... Bring a champion to accept challenges, and perhaps another fighty carachter to clear the front rank of the enemy before they can strike at the BSB. Use it with spearmen or pikemen, so you get lots of attacks after that.
I'm usually able to keep him alive enough to have an impact.

purazon · « **Reply #36 on:** September 08, 2003, 02:06:20 PM »

Ok, maybe I exaggerated a little on the suicide part.

But in most cases I prefer to protect the reroll ability a little extra for 30 points, above spending 100 point on a standard and screaming "hit me, hit me,..." (maybe another exaggeration

)

My point is: when I opt for fielding a BSB, I use him almost always only for his reroll, not for the expansive banners. I have enough slots for the less expansive banners, and I think 2-3 banners is more than enough (troops are more important).
And since I am not taking a banner, I will take the meteoric armour, (and a sword of might if I can spare the points) because a BSB is worth protecting. This way he can survive almost anything and protect himself without the need of a fighty bodyguard character, that way I can use that character somewhere else.

When I know I will be facing undead, I will consider using the Imperial banner, but in this case I put my BSB on a barded warhorse for the extra protection.

However, most of the time I do not field a BSB in 2000p games but an EC, captain on pegasus, WP and wizard.
I do try different combinations against different armies, but I like this one best.

squig87 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 08, 2003, 03:53:32 PM »

I'm know its been discussed before, but if you feel so scared for your BSB then whack him on a horse and get him to run along your lines to offer his re-roll wherever needed. But watch out for those gutter runners.

Konrad von Richtmark · « **Reply #38 on:** September 09, 2003, 06:20:34 AM »

Would a BSB be worth taking in ONLY used for re-roll, not fighting or carrying a special standard?

I'm thinking of my army where my main infantry block is a 28 spearman group with Griffon Standard (as well as a FC detachment). I also have a group of Greatswords with my EC, a huntsman screen and a FC detachment. The Greatswords are part of a weighted flank approach.

Maybe I should ditch the BSB as the spears will probably win a lot with the Griffon Standard and the Greatswords will probably win due to all my nasty flankers.

Atchman · « **Reply #39 on:** September 09, 2003, 06:41:54 AM »

If you are using Greatswords in any role, I would suggest you keep your BSB. A unit of Greatswords with two detachments, with a combat BSB, can hold a flank for a long time. The BSB allows them to re-roll a failed break test, and with their stubborn ability, this makes them close to unbreakable. What I mean by a "combat" BSB, is that he has probably AOM and the Sword of Might. This allows the BSB to get some whacks in against the enemy before they eliminate too many greatswords for them to be effective. The secret of Greatswords is flanking detachments, so they can win melees, and something that swings at normal I so that they don't get so severely damaged that they lose too many guys to win the melee.

Recently, I put my Battle Captain on the Pegasus in with my GS unit when I saw it was about to be charged. This gave me some swings to assist the boys and since he joined the unit it made him effectively stubborn, just in case something went badly. (I may be wrong about being effectively stubborn but it didn't come up in the game, so I didnt' read it to check it out).

A little OT, but I have found that part of my deployment plans have been flawed lately along with the weapon selection for my EC. It seems that placing my Griffon unit on the flank, my greatswords in the middle with the EC, and the flagellants on the other flank is a better strategy. Most folks won't charge a Griffon unit or a unit of flagellants either one, so they beeline for the unit they can at least have a chance to beat the Greatswords. Having Von Aichmaan, put away his beloved greatsword and Speculum and giving him the Holy Sword of Sigismund, makes this unit very hard to beat, especially if the free company detachments get into combat. The Sword allows the EC to take out a few chargers, along with the free company. This will usually result in a few less swings from the enemy, giving you at least a chance to swng back with your greatswords.

This same strategy could work for a BSB with the Sword of Sigismund. Hopefully, he can kill the enemy troops in contact with him before he swings, keeping him alive, assisting melee, allowing re-rolls, despite being naked. His 4+ AS and 4 T, swinging first, and a higher than normal WS, will make him survivable to most units.

Albrecht von Hinkel · « **Reply #40 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:07:53 AM »

Greatswords with BSB in it ROCKS!!

I was taken on by 3 units. 1 rear, 1 flank and 1 front.

They never fled and stood there valiantly fighting, and the next turn my BSB was killed by a flurry of Orc Choppa attacks after bringing 3 of the foul creatures with him.

Konrad von Richtmark · « **Reply #41 on:** September 09, 2003, 08:24:18 AM »

Well, as I said I'm doing a weighted flank attack so I might need attack power rather than holding power on the right flank (I also have a FC detachment, 6 White Wolves and 5 pistoliers on that flank). But I suppose things can get out of hand and I suddenly find myself on the defence.

Wow, that'd be one unbreakable line; if I fold my both flanks inwards it becomes a square around my artillery and handguns; hard to break at any point with flagellants on left flank, griffon spearmen with FC detachment in the centre and Greatswords with EC, BSB and FC company on the right. Knights and pistoliers ready to stop flank/rear attacks or do those themselves.

queek · « **Reply #42 on:** September 09, 2003, 10:18:21 AM »

giving the Banner of Valour to said Greatswords unit is also a cute stunt.

Stubborn, with BSB re-rolls, and immune to Panic.

Konrad von Richtmark · « **Reply #43 on:** September 09, 2003, 01:21:13 PM »

Well, with the leadership of an EC there's only a 17% chance they'll fail an unmodified leadership test anyway.

queek · « **Reply #44 on:** September 09, 2003, 01:27:56 PM »

Murphy's Law, Konrad: "if it can go wrong it will, usually at the worst possible time"

Konrad von Richtmark · « **Reply #45 on:** September 09, 2003, 01:37:01 PM »

Murphy showed his power in my last game, when my Helblaster blew into smithereens at the first artillery dice roll, even though I used Second Sign of Amul to re-roll it. First a 2 and then a 1. Fortunately it was against a newb who had a Cauldron of Blood in a 1000 pts battle so I owned nevertheless.

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Author Topic: Your opinion on BSBs... (Read 2534 times)