Topic: Brass Orb versus Steam Tank

[Nikolaj]

Quote from the item "An Empire Steam Tank hit by the orb suffers 3D6 points of damage".

That was in 6th edition.

But as far as I can see, this will still count in 7th edition, quite harsh though, but true.

Am I correct? or did I make a mistake somewhere?

[mrpineapple]

well that item is now useless against steamtanks as they no longer have points of damage, if somebody uses it in a friendly game just talk about it with your opponant and work out a way to use it (say gives it 3D6 S4 hits or something).

[Rufas the Eccentric]

The rules state that only spells with a given strength can damage the Steam Tank.  All other spell effects are ignored. (NEB page 51, 1st column, 6th paragraph.) 

[Nikolaj]

The rules state that only spells with a given strength can damage the Steam Tank.  All other spell effects are ignored. 

but it's a magic item doing 3d6 points of damage to a steam tank?

I would compare it with a sword of might, fellblade etc. which surely can damage a steam tank?:/

[Ratarsed]

The brass orb is a missile weapon not a spell. I believe the Steam tank is affected as normal. That is, if hit, takes an initiative test (which it automaticaly fails) and is destroyed.

Ratarsed

[Greg DiStefano]

I would venture to say that since the old standard stank had 25 hull points and the orb did 3-18 which maxes a lil over half, I would be fine with it simply doin 1d6 wounds to the stank as it would have the pretty much same effect that it did with the old rules.

[Kaz]

That greg, is not the rules however.

Harsh as it is, it's 3D6 wounds.

[mrpineapple]

which is why it has no effect at all, in a tornament i would usually not let my opponant use it although i would warn them about it before the game as it could effect their whole strat and i like to win games fairly, in a friendly game i don't care about winning or losing so i usually meet an opponant halfway because the BRB states the most important rule is to have fun and arguing over simple change over rules just gets you annoyed and you should play to have fun not just to win.

[Vmartini]

I think the object of the Brass Orb is that it can damage the steam tank, although maybe not to the level it can now. For the time being I would say the difference between 'Damage Points' and 'Wounds' is neglegable. To disallow the use of teh item to your opponent because of bad wording is a wee bit harsh, although losing the tank completly on an average role is nasty.

Something else that needs Q&Aing, Stat!

[erik maas]

ok............

i would say for the time being 3d6 wounds with rmour save allowd

that way you get an avarage of 1 or 2 wounds.

[mrpineapple]

I think the object of the Brass Orb is that it can damage the steam tank, although maybe not to the level it can now. For the time being I would say the difference between 'Damage Points' and 'Wounds' is neglegable. To disallow the use of teh item to your opponent because of bad wording is a wee bit harsh, although losing the tank completly on an average role is nasty.

Something else that needs Q&Aing, Stat!

the difference between damage points and wounds are that the stank had 25 damage points but only 10 wounds thus making the item 2.5X more effective against the stank, this is why i would come to a agreement to keep the item at the same effectiveness against the stank.

[Skyros]

I would say try to come up with some reasonable compromise.

Otherwise, the brass orb does 3d6 points of damage to the steam tank. Which then does... absolutely nothing, as points of damage are not wounds and the new steamtank does not have hull points.

Obviously the brass orb is meant to be able to harm a steam tank somehow, but as written, it's now completely useless. Be a good sport and come up with some workable solution pregame.

[Midaski]

Ok I've cleaned this up and tried to remove all the references that were not about the subject - I hope I haven't mucked up anyone's postings.

Let's carry this on in a civilised manner.

[johnwayne]

thx,

if the new steam tank uses wounds instead of hull points, why haven't they changed it in the rules of the brass orb?

[mrpineapple]

because the brass orb exists in a different book, and it will be re-written when that book is re-released (if they keep it and still want it to damage tanks)

[duckman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a spell/item/whatever have to have a specified strength value in order to damage the STank? Therefore, the orb can't hurt it as it doesn't have a given strength value, rendering it ineffective against the STank. Sucks a bit if you're the one with the orb, but them's the rules as far as I can see.

cheers
duckman

p.s: thanks again to the mods for cleaning out the gibberish leet from the thread, that crap was doing my head in....

[Bernardo icecomet]

I think that 7th edition rules override 6th editions. 

7th edition says only spells with a given strength can damage the Steam Tank.  All other spell effects are ignored.  thats all.

Brass orb? its 6th edition.

[queek]

the Brass Orb isn't a spell.  Hull Points no longer exist, so in all honesty, I'm not sure what to do with the item.  If it defaults to the base rules of the item, the STank is toast.  I'll see what I can do to pass the question along to the powers that be.

[Arntiboi]

What is the brass orb? Who has it? What race? which army book?

[archontheo]

Skaven item of nastiness.

[jrzygrim]

UNfortionately the steam tank is dead.  Since it no longer has hull points then it cannot take the 3D6 worth of damage.  So it defaults to the way the weaopn works.  The weapon works when the model hit by it fails a n initiative test.  The steam tank passes all characteristics test EXCEPT initiative tests which it automatically fails.  Thus failing an initiative test means the models dead.  Thats it no interpretation needed, it stinks but thats teh point of the brass orb, which hits like a stone thrower so its gonna be hard to hit it.  I mean it can kill a slann no problem but there isnt special lizardmen interpretations saying it doesnt work now. 

[Hamenopi]

Until someone with a shirt erratas the brass orb, the narble now is useless as per the NEB rulebook. It damages a trait that is no longer used. Now, being a gentleman, which is now the game should be played in all honestly, I would say a comprimise should be in order.
Example: "The orb no longer effects the stank a per the NEB, go jump off a bridge you non forum reading troll!"

or
"The orb no longer effects the stank a per the NEB, How about establishing a house rule until comperable erata is documented upon the subject. Say 1d6 str 5 hits?" (I would make the spell comparable occording to the pts value of the magic item.)

[BingoBongoEmpire]

To be honest, I'm not sure there's a problem. The caveat for damage to a steam tank was only there because it operated on a different principle to everything else in the game. Now it's got normalised rules, that isn't an issue.

It isn't a spell, so the lack of an S value is not a factor. It forces an I test which the tank is now not immune to and always fails, so it's basically toast as jrzygrim said.

At least that's the way I see it. Pesky skaven 

A similar question would be whether the Shield of the Gorgon would have any effect on a giant if GW changed their rules to include a normal attack on their profile and removed their special attacks. If the exception no longer applies, the item still has its original effect.

[Patch]

I concur - the STank is just a unit like any other now, so the Brass Orb would effect it like it would effect any other unit.
It's a tough deal, so just remember to dispel those Skitterleap spells! 

[jrzygrim]

It stinks I know but hey everyone has some crazy counter.   Besides i think the brass orbs like 50pts so you"ll pretty much know who has it and its normally a cheiftan.  Think about it it has an 8" range, so be weary of any character within 8" and LOS of the Stank.  As for skitterleap, being that it cant be used to put someone in combat (barring clan eshin) if someone is using that spell, stop it at all costs.  And even if it gets off, it still scatters a artillry dice, and thats if they hit with it.  So its not too much of a concern really, just stinks when the 1 in 50 games it might actually happen.  Not enough to deter the use of a Stank i think if you like to take them.