Topic: Grand Army of Carroburg - first draft for 7th ed tourney (2250)

[Graf von Carroburg]

My esteemed fellow generals,

(If you're interested in background/modelling/painting, my army diary is now here: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=14781.0)

An early draft of my list for an upcoming tournament here in sunny Brisbane, Australia. This is how my army list has translated to 7th edition. I'm yet to appreciate the effects of loss of Griffon Banner, but I think it's probably made up for by bulking out the units, including hard detachments of Swordsmen. The current build provides for units of 8, this could easily go to 3x3=9 by dropping Handgunners.

I used to field more shooting, but I'm not wholly convinced it works as well in the new edition. The Volley Gun is along basically because Handgunners didn't get a points drop, and I feel that it will probably kill at least as much as 13 HGs would, without creating a big weak spot in the battleline.

The War Altar is a definite option for the future, as is the Rocket Battery, but those models will take some time to convert (or wait for the production RB).

At present, the blocks deploy 6 wide in the hope of getting some kills to offset the loss of Griffon Banner etc, with the Lector and Priest in the Spears, BSB in the Greatswords. One option at this stage would be to drop the Flagellants for a hammer unit of Reiksguard Knights, and the Wizard for another Priest to lead them. This more offensive build would be fun, but would suffer against armies like Chaos, where the hittiness may not be enough, and where the slightly decreased magic lineup would become potentially problematic. Speaking of magic, thinking of losing one or both bound items for some more fighty stuff or Rod of Command on the Priest.

I'd be really keen on your feedback, as I still have about six weeks to fine tune this force. Incidentally, I'm starting a thread in the Brush and Palette to discuss the design aspects of the force, and background etc. Incidentally, I'm one of those curmudgeons who still insists that Carroburg is Reikish, but please refrain from rehashing that debate here!

Cheers,


Eden

His Grace Klaus Erich Bussjahn, Fürst von Carroburg, Lector of the Sigmarite Cult (Arch-Lector - 252 points)
-Heavy Armour, Barded Steed
-Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Holy Relic, Icon of Magnus

Sander von Mirrenheim, President of the Carroburg Duelling Society (Captain) (122 points)                  
-Full Plate Armour, Barded Steed
-Battle Standard
-Doomfire Ring

Fr. Aloysius von Halle, Prelate of the Sigmarite Cult (Warrior Priest) (130 points)
-Shield, Heavy Armour, Barded Steed
-Aldred’s Casket of Sorcery

Herr Geheime (Battle Wizard) (130 points)
-2nd level
-Rod of Power

1st Carroburg Pike Regiment (22 Spearmen) (152 points)   
-Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician
-Shields

Detachment: 8 Swordsmen   (48 points)
Detachment: 8 Handgunners (64 points)

2nd Carroburg Pike Regiment (22 Spearmen) (152 points)
-Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician
-Shields

Detachment: 8 Swordsmen   (48 points)
Detachment: 8 Handgunners (64 points)

The Infamous Carroburg Greatswords (16 Greatswords) (200 points)
-Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician

Detachment: 8 Swordsmen   (48 points)

The Lost Company of Konrad the Demented (18 Flagellants) (190 points)
-Prophet of Doom

Reiksguard Squadron ‘Totenkopf’ (6 Knights) (123 points)
-Musician

Reiksguard Squadron ‘Schwarzgreif’ (6 Knights) (123 points)
-Musician

1st Carroburg Cuirassiers (5 Pistoliers) (97 points)
-Musician

“Heike” (Great Cannon) (100 points)

“Marien” (Great Cannon) (100 points)

“Mephistopheles” (Helblaster Volley Gun) (110 points)

TOTAL 2253 points

4 Characters
118 Infantry
17 Cavalry
3 Guns
4 Power Dice + 4 Bound Spells + Casket
6 Dispel Dice

[marius kaslain]

looks good, though I would tradde the spearmen for swordsmen and drop the casket of sorcery.

you do know that the Carroburg greatswords aren't actually from Carroburg right?

[Graf von Carroburg]

Yeah, I'm dubious about the Casket, but it is nice as it doubles as magic offence (bound spells) and defence (taking away their spells). Stripping a few Invocations from Undead players could be good fun. On the other hand, it may attract more ill-will to my characters than I really want.

The spearmen are staying, for a few reasons. First is that they're all assembled and painted in varying degrees. Second is just for some variety. Third is that, against weaker enemies 11 attacks rerolling misses for hatred is not so bad. In fact, spears with hatred are nearly as good as pikes (or more accurately, about as good as High Elf spearmen in three ranks, as with a frontage of six you can expect 9 hits on 4+).

As for Carroburg, as I've said a million times, I don't want to change my whole army's theme and colour scheme which I've had since late 4th ed, just because some upstart writer goes changin' stuff!

[Gneisenau]

As for Carroburg, as I've said a million times, I don't want to change my whole army's theme and colour scheme which I've had since late 4th ed, just because some upstart writer goes changin' stuff!

 

The names you gave your troops are very characterful, definitely one of the best jobs in this regard I've seen yet. Especially the flagellants are nice.

I'd prefer archers as detachments instead of handgunners, but I guess it's a matter of style. However, you should perhaps consider to give the flagellants a screening unit. This is for two reasons: first, a screen makes it harder for the enemy to bait&flee them (frenzied units with M4 are really prone to suffer from this tactic) and second, it can protect them from some of the missile/magic fire they will without question attract. T3 with no armor and 10 points per model is just asking for the odd spell or arrow barrage. Since it looks like the flagellants are a major element in your army, you should not allow their numbers to get depleted. Just my opinion.

Otherwise, I like your list (must be all the infantry).

[Graf von Carroburg]

Thanks for the encouragement Gneisenau! I'm right into the background of the Empire, as well as comparable European history. In fact, I'm probably going to write my honours thesis on the Thirty Years War. But more on that in my army diary thread: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=14781.0.

I'm quite a fan of the archer screen, but it doesn't really fit with the feel I have for the army as ultra-disciplined and high-tech. Also, I do like having some serious shooting, and Handgunners as separate units may be too big a risk of panic!

The Flagellants will want some serious playtesting. I watched a game today where 17 or so held up a big unit of Cold One Knights for about 4 combats, on the other hand, they all died without killing any in reply! That said, a countercharge would have been coming had a knight unit not gotten distracted chasing a lone Dark Rider, so this may not be an ideal example.

I may drop them in the end for a third infantry battalion, which would make four with the Greatswords, and hard to beat, if a bit one-dimensional! The main reason for this is that, if there are plastic figs on the horizon, I don't want either the hassle of converting them, or the expense of going metal (don't like the metals much anyway!).

Finally, if y'all are wondering, I've written a bit of army background which I hope will solve the Reikland/Middenland issue for me, which I shall post later tonight in the diary...

[Racticas]

I've been watching your list and blog-- looking good!  I have a vested interest in your success, of course, as a fellow Reiklander.  When I first started into Warhammer, I dug through a lot of fluff and found that the "trademark" characteristics of Reiklanders were high discipline and favoring shooting over close combat where possible.  Additionally, of course, you have the province's wealth and proximity to Altdorf, Nuln, etc.  the possibilities are basically endless.

To reflect the "discipline", I have made my main battle line weapon skill 4, Ld 8 and stubborn (28 swordsmen with BSB and Banner of Sigismund, 24 greatswords).  I also gave them halberdier detachments instead of free company, to keep everyone in uniform.

Shooting (so far) is 2 cannons and 10 crossbows; not a lot, I know.  Still trying to figure out exactly what I want to do, with about 115 points remaining.

I hope that this doesn't thread-jack; my point is just to tell you what I've been doing with a similar theme, take from it what you will.

[Graf von Carroburg]

Hi Racticas,

Thanks for your support! I can't tell you how helpful the good folk of the site are in terms of keeping me motivated, as well as fine-tuning the army. I paint so much in the lead up to a tournament that I typically don't have a lot of time for playtesting, so hearing about people's success with similar armies is very useful.

I definitely agree with you about the Reikish characteristics, and I try to embody the following:

1. Affluent and well-equipped: Full armour upgrades on everyone, and lots of blackpowder weapons.
2. Disciplined: Full command on all units (except the Reiksguard, as I'm only an outpost, not important enough for banners etc, not to mention the fact that it's a points sink too big to bear even for fluff reasons), always a BSB, though I take spearmen instead of swords mainly for appearance reasons, depicting them as pikes, which require much more complex drill patterns.
3. Stoic and traditional: No militia, no allied troops like Ogres. No crossbows as they're more traditionally Tilean, as well as no longer being state of the art. (Perhaps even a hint of xenophobia in these choices?) Another manifestation was that I avoided the Volley Gun due to it being a bit newfangled and fancy, however, now that the Rocket Battery has taken over as the new toy, I think the HBVG may have found a place.

The exception here is that I hope to use some Flagellants, though I will suggest that they are really only tolerated through the express intercession of the Sigmarite Priests...

Cheers again for the assistance, I wonder, do you have a tournament sized list posted up somewhere I could have a look at?


Eden

[Racticas]

Cheers again for the assistance, I wonder, do you have a tournament sized list posted up somewhere I could have a look at?

Eden

now I do.
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=14860.0